Building a new PC? Look here first.

Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby nandersen on 25 Aug 2009 06:55

Grump642 wrote:Two problems with what you have. Not enough memory and weak video card.

Speaking about not enough memory... I actually got an "out of memory" windows error popup once on my rig... and that one has 12GB of RAM (though 4GB are used as a RAM drive). Now try to guess what I had going that day ;)
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby VINTAR on 25 Aug 2009 12:18

nandersen wrote:
Grump642 wrote:Two problems with what you have. Not enough memory and weak video card.

Speaking about not enough memory... I actually got an "out of memory" windows error popup once on my rig... and that one has 12GB of RAM (though 4GB are used as a RAM drive). Now try to guess what I had going that day ;)


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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Balious on 25 Aug 2009 12:49

Thanks Grump I see if I can buy those when I get the money. I only the nVidea cards so I ask how good is the 4870? Is it good against something like geforce 9800? Or perhaps better?

For my powersupply was looking around on Newegg and saw this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817148038

Is this one good? I need to replace my current one due to the fan making a noise.

Also need a heatsink and my friend had recommend this one:
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/105994

I was wondering if thats worth it?

Haven't looked around for a sound card yet but could anyone reccommend me a good one?
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 25 Aug 2009 13:27

Balious wrote:This seemed the best place to put this.

So everyone knows I need either new parts or get a new computer.

Considering the only good thing about my computer is the quad core. I am wondering is it better to build a new computer with my quad core processor along with better other parts or do I buy a new one with all these things already?

After abit of talking and abit of persuading by Jamie I was looking at the titan nero computer he is getting and was interested in it but the dual core was quite crap.

Everyone here knows my specs but I post them anyway if you can lead me to a good computer.

Copied from Xfire:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs)
Memory: 1022MB RAM
Hard Drive: 320 GB
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS
Sound Card: Realtek HD Audio output (its what it calls it but I have a realtek card anyway)
Operating System: Windows XP Professional

The type of computer I want which most people want I believe is something that can play games like stalker and such good and can also play the latest games. Lasting a good while too but arent all the computers got the same time to live for?


Keep your quad, get a P5Q Pro, a HD4830, and a cheap kit of 4GB PC8500 and your set. P5Q Pro will be about £80, 4830 about £70, cheap 4GB PC8500 kit around £40.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Balious on 25 Aug 2009 13:52

Thanks for the help ket.

after looking on newegg I thought these three be the best to get.

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102825
$149.99

Memory:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231166
$59.99

Motherboard:
ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131377
$134.99

Total Price:
$344.97

Would this be good to get? Also does anyone think it require a heatsink?
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Grump642 on 25 Aug 2009 16:06

That AC Freezer 7 Pro is a good HS+F.The 4870 was ATI's top card till they just came out with the 4890. Excellent card and will kick butt on anything even close to the same price from nVidia. What motherboard do you have now? If you really need something different, I would wait till after you got the other stuff. Since you are still using XP, any Creative sound card will work.
Whether you need a new HS+F depends on whether you plan on OCing. I would, but not really necessary unless you plan on OCing.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Balious on 25 Aug 2009 17:02

My current motherboard is XFX nForce 650i Ultra. Which is a Nividia one. Should I buy an ATI graphics card with it? I should be able to buy the 4890 if I don't replace the motherboard but can they work together?

The main reason why I want a heat sink is because according to SpeedFan my CPU is around 60C and the cores go between 60C and over 70C. And this is just listening to music and going on firefox.

Here is the 4890 I was thinking of:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814127439

Should I get it (edited)
Or get this?:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0GTX%20275
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Grump642 on 25 Aug 2009 21:15

Those temps are pretty high. While the stock coolers are not real good, they should do better then that. I would try reseating it with arctic silver #5. As for the vid card, the 4890 is a little better. But not really worth $60-$70 more. Unless you have the money. I have always had good luck with Sapphire cards. Their VaporX cards do a really good job of cooling and are quiet. Sort-of. ;) Oh, ATI cards work just fine on nVidia chipsets. If re-seating the heatsink doesn't work, I would buy a HS+F by Nochtua. Their smaller 92mm one kept my Core2 8400 OC'ed to 3.825 nice and cool. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608003
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 26 Aug 2009 12:14

Balious wrote:Thanks for the help ket.

after looking on newegg I thought these three be the best to get.

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102825
$149.99

Memory:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231166
$59.99

Motherboard:
ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131377
$134.99

Total Price:
$344.97

Would this be good to get? Also does anyone think it require a heatsink?


I really would stick with a HD4830, very powerful card once its OCd and DX11 hardware isn't far off so you don't want to waste a huge amount of money on a GPU right now. Heres what my little shopping spree turned up;

G.Skill Trident 2x2GB PC8500 $65. This memory for a few extra bucks is FAR better, it only requires 1.8v to work vs 2v with the kit you picked out, and the memory timings on the Trident kit far and away blow the kit you picked out of the water (5-5-5-15 vs 6-6-6-18). Memory timings and voltage are extremely important when picking memory. Tighter timings means your RAM is more efficient and lower voltage means it will operate much cooler. Ignore the newegg reviews, their garbage and the people don't really know what their talking about. You wont get any problems with the Trident kit on a half decent mobo.

Asus P5Q Pro $120. This is the actual Pro not the Pro Turbo model. You don't need the Turbo model and I released a modded BIOS some time ago for the straight P5Q Pro that brings it to the Turbo level and then some ;)

HD4830 512MB $95. Once you OC this its a very fast card, and as I already said, DX11 hardware is not far off so you don't want to waste a lot of money on a graphics card at this time. Pocket the savings and put it toward a HD5870.

Total: $280

ED - As to your HSF, a Zalman 9500 should do a good job, my OCd Q8400 never goes over about 60c. Also, do NOT buy ANY current nvidia card, unlike current ATi cards current nvidia cards are missing crucial hardware aspects which make them almost totally incompatible with DX11 games, whereas current ATi cards have the necessary hardware and are at least 90% hardware compatible with DX11.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Grump642 on 26 Aug 2009 14:20

Ket, you are right about nVidia vs ATI. Plus ATI has a MUCH better price/performance point. My 4890 is OC to 900Mhz core and 1050Mhz memory. All ATI cards OC now. Whether he needs a DX11 card depends on whether he plans on getting Win7 anytime soon. If not, a DX10.1 card will do.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 26 Aug 2009 15:43

It makes no sence to buy a expensive DX10 card with DX11 hardware just around the corner, even if you won't be using Windows 7. The HD5k series is still DX10 compliant, and much, much more powerful than a HD4890. The HD5870 should have in the region of at least 1200 SPs, if not 1600 SPs. Compare that with a HD4890s 800 SPs, and the choice becomes clear :-bd
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Balious on 26 Aug 2009 15:48

Thanks guys.

Regarding Windows 7 - I think I stick with XP for abit longer until I have to swap to the next one along the lines or after knowing it works perfect.

I will also need a new power supply I think if I am get to the 4830.

For the HS how much does a Zalman 9500 cost?

So should I just get the 4830 and save up for the 5870?
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Grump642 on 26 Aug 2009 16:30

For PSU I recommend Corsair. Can not be beat for the money. As for the graphics card, the 4830 will not give you anywhere near the performance of a 4850($20 more) or even a 4770( $15 more). Check out the reviews. But I am tired of this pissing contest with Ket, so I am done with this.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 26 Aug 2009 17:35

There is no "pissing contest" as you put it grump, and its a shame to see you get bent so out of shape when all I'm doing is recommending to balious the best bang for his buck. The 4830 is a very capable card without blowing a huge amount on a new GPU so close to DX11 parts becoming available.

Anyway, balious. Newegg list the Zalman 9500 for $48, and for a decent PSU, you have lots of options but my top 3 would be; this($85), this($65), or this($100). The overall wattage isn't that important, but rather the overall amps you have available on the 12v rail(s), which unsurprisingly, the sunbeam has in spades given its the most powerful unit. It all depends if you like single or dual 12v rails. Single rails deliver more power in one fell swoop than dual 12v rails do, but the downside is you can't isolate "spiking" devices or deadicate a "clean" power flow to a component(s) like you can with a dual 12v rail.

Of course, if you can say what PSU you currently have somebody can check it out and tell you if you need a new PSU at all.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby audioave10 on 27 Aug 2009 17:03

Balious...you should get a good video card NOW since you want to play
the games you have nicely NOW. DX10 or DX11 don't mean a thing when you're on XP like me. There are NO exclusive DX11 games coming out. GRID will be here in December and touts some DX11
features but as most previous games have proven with DX10, there
isn't a big difference in them and they slow down your system. Games
are almost always now Xbox ports so DX11 won't be an issue for 2
years or more. Checking developer blogs shows that they are being
forced to look at money first. Publishers (with this economy) are not
allowing them to be creative on the PC. Its only for consoles until
something big comes along (like Crysis). Even Crytek are going to
consoles for money reasons.
DX10 was a selling ploy for Vista.
DX11 is a selling ploy for Windows 7.
Until the economy allows a Publisher & Developer the option of "risk",
It ain't going to happen. What did DX10 give us? Lost Planet, a few
features for "Call Of Juarez"? Nicer looking Clear Sky? MEH...
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 27 Aug 2009 20:13

TBH.. I don't think I've read so much guff in one post in some time there. The games Balious wants to play he can play very comfortably with a HD4830, which saves him some money now which he can spend as he sees fit. Balious also has not ruled out W7, so its senceless buying a expensive DX10 card when he could get a DX11 card in the near future. By his own admission he wants to stick with XP for now, XP is limited to DX9c, which again makes the purchase of a expensive DX10 card pointless. DX10 was and is largely useless, however DX11 offers real benefits. I won't go into the real gritty details as it'll take too long, but here is some good insight into what DX11 hardware offers, and its superiority over current hardware. DX11 hardware should also be available in the next few weeks.

ED - Here is a review comparing the HD4830 to the likes of a HD4850, 4870 and a GTX260. As I said, when its all done and dusted a OCd 4830 is more than capable of delivering powerful performance without expending a huge amount of money.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby audioave10 on 28 Aug 2009 05:50

"Across the Pond" might be the problem here as 4830 owners suggest to go with the 4850 card. In Fallout 3 the difference effects
playability. Also, here the difference can be only $5 or $10. The main
question is when he might go to Windows 7. Even if he gets W7 in 6 months, his gaming will be better for the $10. The video card is the
BIG update that shows the biggest gaming difference. As you know,
overclocking is never guaranteed and produces more heat. I just
think that the most regret can come from a video card purchase.
Just more stuff for Balious to think about. Does he want to play games best NOW, or is he thinking about the upgrade to W7? Only
he can answer that.
I still think that DX11 games are not quick in getting here. Worse, I'm
afraid of the consolitis that may keep us from enjoying DX11 for awhile. Also, I'm not suggesting an expensive card...just a little better one.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby Balious on 28 Aug 2009 13:25

Now that I read everyones posts I think I can make my mind up on this graphics card situation.

I will get a 4850 as its only a slight more expensive and should still be able to run the latest games for abit. It should run Call of Pripyat right? Just need to find the best one.

About the power supply. Its not if its good enough right now its the fan in it. It makes a different noise to what it should of. But so far it seems okay most likely because its cold right now. May not actually need it replaced. All I know about it is that it has 530W.

Thanks everyone for helping me out :mozilla_smile:

Edit:
Oh and I will be sticking with XP for sometime.
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Re: Building a new PC? Look here first.

Postby ket on 28 Aug 2009 13:43

If the difference is only like $10 then get the 4850, even though the extra performance you get for the extra $10 really isn't that noticable. Don't just take my word on it go and ask over at xtremesystems forums. That place is filled with folk as knowledgeable as me and with the worlds best overclockers. Can't argue with their opinion because their obsessive addicts :p.
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HDD: 250GB & 500GB nVME 3.0 M.2 drives, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, Sata3 64MB Cache, 250GB Hynix SL301
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