Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby EggChen on 28 Mar 2009 16:00

Home Premium x64 here.

Google "Best Vista for gaming"... I found that all are much the same, the only difference is the apps that come built in for DVD burning, media, etc, etc.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 28 Mar 2009 16:18

Wonder how the different Vista editions relate to W7 editions. E.g. will there be a Home / Business / Ultimate set of editions like for Vista?
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Grump642 on 29 Mar 2009 00:10

I would get the Home Premium. 64 or 32 bit is dependent on you. I would not get the basic tho.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 29 Mar 2009 08:57

Did you manage to download W7 by the way?

If yes, can you tell me if the search features are just as retarded as in Vista?
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Grump642 on 29 Mar 2009 23:43

Never got it. Made several tries and then the time limit was up. Pi..ed me off.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 09 Apr 2009 13:19


Seems like a subscriber-only article?

By the way the desktop components in W7 for some reasons remind me of my Linux days when I was using KDE :)
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby rockingmtranch on 09 Apr 2009 15:29

nandersen wrote:Seems like a subscriber-only article?

By the way the desktop components in W7 for some reasons remind me of my Linux days when I was using KDE :)

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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Lyoko774 on 18 Apr 2009 09:27

Windows 7 is turning out to be very promising so far, I'm on build 7077 64-bit right now. Release Candidate Escrow.
It's a lot faster for me than both Vista or XP have ever been. And I haven't had many problems at all, really.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 06 May 2009 21:18

Has anybody succeeded in getting RivaTuner to run under W7?
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Grump642 on 06 May 2009 23:34

One interesting new feature of Win7, is it's ability to run in "xp Mode". This would be perfect for running the SDK. Bad news is it requires a hardware virtualization that many Intel CPUs do not have. Here is a list:
Desktop CPUS
Core 2 Duo
E4300/4400/4500/4600/4700 NO
E6300/6320/6400/6420/6540/6550 YES
E6600/6700/6750/6850 YES
E7200/7300/7400/7500 NO
E8190 NO
E8200/8300/8400/8500/8600 YES
Core 2 Extreme
QX6700/6800/6850 YES
QX9650/9770/9775 YES
X6800 YES
Core 2 Quad
Q6600/6700 YES
Q8200/8200S/8300/8400/8400S NO
Q9300/9400/9400S YES
Q9450/9550/9550S/9650 YES
Core i7/Core i7 Extreme
I7-920/940 YES
I7-965 YES
Pentium D/Pentium EE
805/820/830/840 NO
915/925/935/945 NO
920/930/940/950/960 YES
955/965 YES
Pentium for Desktop
E2140/2160/2180/2200/2220 NO
E5200/5300/5400 NO
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 07 May 2009 13:52

Grump, this virtual XP sounds like a salvation to me - I may finally be able to use my PC to run a Cisco VPN client for working from home.
I'm still with the E6750 CPU, but I'm planning to buy a 920 soon which is also on your list.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Nightwatch on 07 May 2009 22:51

Grump642, I have Q8300. Now, I take that it I won't be able to utilize this XP thing if I were to go to Windows 7, correct? Too bad, if so. (But, I'll still go W7.)
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 07 May 2009 23:06

Running Win7 x64 for just over 24 hours I can say that it's OK but in my opinion Vista x64 was just as OK.
I got RivaTuner working - needed Vista drivers for my GeForce VGA... not really a problem with Win7 but still a problem.

Getting Virtual Windows XP to work was painless and works great for my purpose. I can't even feel that I'm running under a VM. The virtual XP is snappy and starts (from the default hibernation) in less than 10 seconds. The only thing to complain about is that I only get 16-bit colors in the virtual XP. Cisco VPN Client works perfectly in such setup and having two separate PCs in one allows me to run my work environment with VPN connection while still being able to access the Internet without any restrictions from the Win7 desktop. Probably it could be used for running the xray sdk also but with 16 bit colors I'm not sure it's a good choice.

I almost forgot: the installation program for Win7 is a big improvement over Vista:
1) it's possible to install in AHCI SATA mode
2) FINALLY there's no need for a floppy - you can load drivers (if needed) from any storage device connected to the PC
3) it seems to install faster than Vista on my HW
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Grump642 on 08 May 2009 01:11

Nightwatch, as I understand it, the 8300 will not do it. Shame.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby NatVac on 08 May 2009 05:54

Useful list, Grump642. Well, Nightwatch, while it won't be as fast as those systems with Intel VT or AMD-V, you can still do pretty much exactly the same thing with lots of existing virtualization software out there.

The difference might just be cost, as the XP license comes with Windows 7 -- although it is a separate download at the moment. And it may be possible to get the copy anyway, since MS wants folks to buy the new OS for obvious financial reasons.

And those folks wanting to run their legacy games may be disappointed in any case, as the VT reduces the I/O hit, but doesn't eliminate it -- at best. The current impression I have is that the I/O is assigned to a specific OS, and in shared environments there's either a translation cost going from one environment to the other, or exclusive ownership of a hardware feature.

This last is probably what nandersen is experiencing. That might be locally "fixable" by not using the 3D video card in Windows 7, so that XP can use it. This might be better controlled by software in the future.

Why does this issue exist? Well, while the CPUs have explicit virtualization support, the I/O interface chips currently don't.

The situation is different than dual-booting, where you only have one environment running at a time with no I/O conflicts.

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Windows 7, even with the new DRM, might not be that bad an OS if MS has truly learned their lesson with Vista.¹ It obviously can take advantage of newer hardware features, like the SATA install mentioned by nandersen, although I thought you could do that with Vista. (In fact, you can do that with XP, but you have to "slipstream" the needed support into your install disk or image. :P)

One complaint is the cost of change² for folks. Rearranging menus and forcing the use of ribbons may be more efficient in the long run, but converting to them and learning all the new places of items can be more expensive than staying on the old path. QWERTY vs. Dvorak is a good example.

The more they can give us both legacy and new options, the better I will like it.

With that said, I'm probably going to be using a Linux distro more for personal use. That has its own problems, with every distro saying "Me, me!" or "No, me, me!" But I find that I actually prefer most OSS applications to the proprietary ones, even if both were the same cost.

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² "There is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new." -- Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby audioave10 on 08 May 2009 05:56

Looks like my E8500 will be OK for that. The more I read the more I think I'll go 7 x64 when its released for this Intel setup.
I'll keep my other PC on XP SP3.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby Nightwatch on 08 May 2009 21:57

Thanks Natvac, it was very useful. :thumbright: , on my part, will end up getting a virtualization software as it seems.
I was planning to install the newly made available Windows 7 RC, but I noticed that, I'd need to make a clean install over Vista and then perform another clean install of retail version of Windows 7 when it's properly released, I gave up. Two full installs too much for me. I have 110 programs on my PC (as "uninstall programs" shows), it'd be too much work. They say that when retail version is released, we can just update it over Vista with the ease of an Service Pack. (hope so) So, I'll wait for the full version of W7.
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Re: Windows 7 -Same Old Duck or A New Beginning?

Postby nandersen on 09 May 2009 13:36

Here's a really annoying problem with Win7: when I try to copy something to an FTP folder I get "The handle is invalid" error.
I always use Explorer to access my FTP site so this is a real pain.

EDIT: I actually find Vista x64 a bit smoother than Win7. It boots faster, it shuts down faster and the UI is easier to get used to. This doesn't mean that I'll be going back; the virtual XP is reason enough to stay at least for now.
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